Cheating on EOF?

DragonReborn · Post by **DragonReborn** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 7:57 am

Last night i was on EOF until about 12:30 am. I was still awake so i went to go back and there was no one there. I decided to check out some other servers and i bumped into GeneralH. He stated that the reason no one was on EOF was because someone gave out the URL and everyone started cheating. The cheats they were using were aimbot, wallhack, and a fog cheat. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT? I don`t know about the rest of you but i don`t think i`m going to play there anymore for a while. What a shame.

Post by **Archangelus** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 9:31 am

Yeah, that's a big issue. IDO and I knew about the hacks a while ago and IDO actually downloaded them becuase he thought if he knew what they did, maybe there would be an easier way to identify or defend against them. We had even talked about making the locations of them guild knowledge so that people who wanted to do what IDO was suggesting could have the opportunity to do so. 
 
I don't think that would have been a good idea because regardless of whether or not our guild mates would have actually used them in a game, we would still be propegating the information and I don't think any of us want to be linked to cheats, risk being labeled as cheat users, nor be a part of the same activities the brought down CS. 
 
I'm pretty sure that SG1 knows about the issue and they have always taken a hard line stance against cheaters. If the situation has become this grim though, they will probably start banning CD-Keys as soon as they suspect someone is cheating. I'm not sure what this all means in regards to SOF2, but they better get the 1.02 patch out soon to try and stop this situation (at least temporarily). 
 
-Arch

XoR · Post by **XoR** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 6:43 pm

I hear ya. <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif"> 
 
 
Even the master of the universe himself, John Carmack, said that cheats are damn near impossible to prevent in this type of game. After all, he says, a hacked video driver will always trump just about anything. 
 
Well hell. I have a simple outlook on these cheating bastards. 
 
Let 'em cheat. yup, you heard me right, let em! Having never cheated (I don't even cheat in single player games) I can tell you that they are only degenerating their own skill level. One day they may need to play a real supervised game where they can't cheat and will get their ass handed to them on a silicon wafer. 
 
As with Counter-Strike, I pretty much just assume everyone is cheating while I play, and enjoy it all the more when I rack up points. 
 
Now all I haveta do is rack up the points <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif"> 
 
 
 
I have magnetic boots, I am convinced . . . I can be ANYWHERE on the map and grenades mystically home in on my boots, like some unknown void of consciousness in the ether patiently awaiting me to join a server and then " Alas! Xor hath arrived " 
 
sv_grenade_attract_xor = 1 
 
yeah, it sure as hell seems like it. <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif"> 
 
but I'm drinkin Milk damnit! Saw Dnasty1 on today , good to see ya playin bro!

A7ESF · Post by **A7ESF** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:10 pm

Hey Xor, I think I have the same Magnetic bot as you. Frags just love me for some reason. 
 
I understand and agree with not giving out the URL, keep your eyes open and a lot of times you'll spot the cheat. One suggestion would be to start a page with know Cheaters names on it. Kind of a ban warning list. This can be sent to SG1 and hopefull we can help keep the server clean. Its a good place to play and I dont think any of us want it ruined. 
 
But keep in mind, to call someone a cheat we need almost absolute proof. A demo at the very least! We dont want to be naming inocent people. I think we have all been accused of cheating at least once. I know I have. 
 
I love knowing that the scores I rack up are from HOURS of practice, and from playing with better players. Cheats just waste all that work and you lose the pride. <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif">

XoR · Post by **XoR** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 10:35 pm

Just in case someone got the wrong idea from my blurry post, I didn't mean "let them cheat" as in " I don't care". No No, In fact, I feel anyone using cheats in this gem of a game should get their balls cleaved off and ... oh wait, they ain't got no balls, thats why they are cheatin ... 
 
The only problem I see with a list of names is the anonymity of a name. They can just change their names. 
 
Is there a way to ban by IP address or DNS host name? or better yet a MAC address? 
 
Then we can make a database of IP's and host names that are cheaters, and share the list. 
 
I have been trolling the message boards of various SOF2 sites and the consensus is clear : they exist and are ruining the game. I must say that almost everyone is enraged about it, and demand a fix or PB integration. 
 
Blizzard banned 20,000 CD keys for map-hacking. I can just see hordes of little 12 year olds staring at a logon-denied screen... no more "I orc tower rush you now kekekeke ^_^ " you little bastards. I would love to know If blizzard will ban someone with the same IP/MAC/DNS hostname with just a new key? In other words, Is the CD key banned? or the PERSON banned? Interesting question 
 
I've went through all these emotions before with Quakeworld,Quake2,Q3A,CS and now this. I gotta say I'm getting pissed beyond words the more I think about it. 
 
I think the solution has to be in a un-changeable REQUIRED login ID name per CD key, an open source tool that can undeniably prove a cheat in a replay (for proof) and perma banning of keys. A website exposing name/IP's would be nice too. Suddenly everyone whos caught will have a "little brother who was playing, not me" but who cares EXPOSURE CAN ONLY HELP. 
 
My head hurts, and I'm at work so I can't drink. <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif">

GeneralH · Post by **GeneralH** » Wed Sep 11, 2002 8:24 am

Cheating and MP games....Yeah for a second I was shocked but then came back to earth <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> 
 
Back in the Q3 days I knew this guy who had cable and made his own auto fire script (one bad ass combo). Whenever you move your crosshair over the person to see his name it would auto fire. This is a neat trick as it did not auto aim for you but just auto fired. Right off the bat you can see how this would work well for Q3 having a 1 shot kills most railgun. 
 
None of us were pissed at the autoaim and autoshot scripts because there were OGL Servers (I think that was the name...its been a long time) - these were setup in a way where no scripts would run. So if you wanted a fair game just select a server with care. 
 
I personally liked the late night games we had on the open maps vs script users - If you could own someone with a railgun without cheating you're good. Most who were regs and used the cheats soon found out that they lack the element required to rack up major points. On a DM server or a large CTF server you can blindly kill all day, but vs a clan in a controlled inv' you're going to get your ass kicked anyways. Might as well play fair and take it like a 12 year old school boy <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif"> 
 
Now onto SOF2 - yeah I knew about the cheats way before when it was only a wisper and even seen a few versions which have not yet been posted publicly. One mod is a hack to the main MP exe which turns off the pure check (so it always thinks all is cool) and also enables both red and blue team members to show up on your radar. This is not a wall hack as you will not see the person on the other side of a wall but you will see the persons team icon within range and their arrow on the radar at all times. As of right now this mod can't be detected as the server must fall back on what your exe says. 
 
The exe hacks can be killed with a patch - Q3 had so many updates most didn't bother to reverse it anymore. It takes a shit load of time to reverse in asm and patch in hex. Then comes the scripts - these come in many forms from pk3 files (common to q3) and what some call over ride scripts which are loaded first which then load the main app. These can be detected, however to be honest the methods are half ass at best and end up kicking more legit users than the real cheaters. 
 
A good example of this was last night (Tuesday) - I finally got a new SB Audigy EX installed after some time when my old SB Live Platinum died out. My setup before was a 50" plasma screen with a AMD 2000+ which I did the 2300+ mod to. This setup with a SB live card out to a very highend digital 5.1 setup makes multiplayer games fun to say the least. The setup is nice but it was flawed, my sound output was not true surround and was basicly a digital 2ch out split into 5.1. I could hear everything but I couldn't tell if someone was behind me. You know enough to tell when a shotgun goes off to the right but thats about it. Visually I would say I have an advantage being only 4~5 feet from the screen - honestly its not possible to see the entire screen at any one time and being so close to a image so large you can see that tiny head pop out from the corner very well - sniper, red, airport, stairs anyone? <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> 
 
So for some time i had this god awfull 2 ch on board audio which basicly lets you hear the game with no real direction - this with a 115 ping from 45 left me basicly screwed. So here comes the A-EX card which can do full surround - I must say wow, you can hear peoples foot steps on the metal floor in maps such as the airport. When someone is running they make so much sound why would you need to cheat...you can hear them a mile away <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> and if they shoot so much as once you can pin point where they are. Oh and a nice fat ass auto shot in hand helps for those up close and personal moments. 
 
So I went onto EOF last night and noticed my ping is back in the 40's....this plus my setup is 110%, someone is going to get cut! I had some kick ass games, also got my ass handed to me a few times (note to self, the auto shot is no good vs a nade). 
 
Later that night we were down to Dragon and myself - I asked if he would rather find a better server as EOF at the time had a total of 3. He said cool, and I told him to find a server and I will search for his name and join. He left and I went on to knife the poor guy(s) left (yeah 1 more joined, so i cut them both) won the map 5/0 and left. I found Dragon on another server and joined. My SOF2 has been on for a few hours and I had all the maps loaded to mem, the map was airport inf - and just as the map was going to start for me I get kicked out with a message saying some odd command gl_blah and a error message about my screen shot directory is not valid. Ok WTF is this? I noticed on the screen for the server it said auto dl must be on which mine isn't so I said ok why not, turn it on and try again. Same thing.....So I get pissed as I do not take screen shots or know what the hell it ment but I shut down and reboot my pc. I reload and join again only to have it say this again. Dragon changed to another server at this point seeing as I had problems and the next server was fine. I asked what the console said when I tried to join and he said I was kicked for having invalid pk3 files. 
 
Did I cheat by not having a screen shot dir <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif"> . What is bullshit about this is the fact that all the known cheats do not touch the pk3 files at all, so why get kicked with a lame error like that? Perhaps its just a general error message they get in game which is cool - so that leaves me with the error i got on my end which does not add up. Back when SOF2 v1.0 hit I edited my pk3 file and added my own music - this mod worked fine for a long time but the new patch said my game was damaged and I would have to reinstalled to update (which I did only to have to suffer the endless all night porn music <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> ). The only thing I can think of here is the fact that my sof2 is installed on C: but the files are linked to H: which is my 180gig raid. I had this raid fail more than once as a startup losing everything - so now its used as a game and ISO storage drive. 
 
If servers are going to run lame ass detect scripts which kick those who are only there to cut then thats sad. In the end this entire issue will only limit us to the servers we know well - and if any of us are kicked it makes others look at us and our clans and wonder "what if". Thats the really sad part. Lucky for us UT2k3 is close - gives us new ground to bleed while they fix this issue. 
 
So for now as long as my ping is stable at 40~50 I think I will knife again. You can't cheat with a knife as you must toss a knife way above the target to have a chance of it getting that far. And up close slicing...well not much help a scrpit can do here as all you have to do is hold down the button <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">

Post by **Archangelus** » Wed Sep 11, 2002 10:35 am

Ok, couple of things to answer from multiple posts on this topic:

<LI>You can ban by IP Address, Name, or Subnet as of 1.01. Starting with 1.02, you can ban by CD-KEY<LI>Blizzard's ban for WarCraft 3 was by CD-Key. They deleted all the accounts of the cheaters, removed them from the ladders, and banned them for 2 weeks.<LI>Invalid .PK3 files is a common error and doesn't always mean someone is cheating. I think we have all be stopped from connecting because of that.<LI>Putting names of cheaters on a webpage would be great, except like Xor stated, names can be changed on a whim. Perhaps in the future, we can make a list of CD-Keys<LI>IDO is working on AVI's (I think we'll get them up on the site tonight or tomorrow) that shows one demo in normal mode, then again using two different wall hacks. We did it on a dummy system and local server for demonstration purposes only, so people can see what a cheater sees.

Anyways, I hope I answered most of what I was trying to..... <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> 
 
-Arch

GeneralH · Post by **GeneralH** » Wed Sep 11, 2002 11:35 am

I have been on EOF all day yesterday and most of today (woke up early and have little to do). 
 
Clan ES and FTS are using it for sure. Clan ES is using the autoaim as well - one of them pulled a near 180 turn and nailed right away. I did the normal spec on 3 ES members who all suddenly locked onto people that you could barly see. And I do not mean a slow lock but a sudden jump from one spot directly to them and shoot. Q3 had this error when a autoaim, shoot script was used sometimes the person would spawn then just shoot people behind them moving so fast it looks like they didn't move. 
 
Clan FTS - I have only seen 2 members but both use the wall hack, no autoaim. 
 
I also ran into a few people who kept shooting at walls as if someone was right there. In ghost mode for red then free float following blue you can see why they are shooting as there is someone on the other side. I guess with the wall hack on sometimes its not easy to tell what is in front or behind a wall <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> 
 
This is basicly one of the only ways to pick off a wall hacker right now - be on the other team of someone you think is using it. Die in INF or DEM then ghost one of your own team players, hit space bar and go into free float mode and follow the guy in question. This will enable you to follow him and still see the other team. Another cool thing I noticed was people running from nades when no one tossed them..... 
 
Sure would be cool to have a clan server right about now (hint, hint) <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> 
 
BTW this is what I look like when I get killed trying to cut <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif"> . Will pay...oh yes you will.

XoR · Post by **XoR** » Wed Sep 11, 2002 11:47 am

Hi there General 
 
I am wagering a total guess about that invalid_pak problem 
 
perhaps this homegrown script boy running that server validates a checksum of your entire SOF2 folder? The absence of a replay folder off-kilters the CRC? Just an idea.

*BBC|Wulfpak · Post by *BBC|Wulfpak » Wed Sep 11, 2002 1:02 pm

werd fellas...got a q that i have been curious about but could never really make up my mind on. Was specing clear an d present sausage and another guy....something: Slappyhands or something like that....well i saw suasge shot a wall with his shot gun at one point in time and all the pellets go in a really really small area...I am talking bout head size and this was from a good 4-5 feet away game wise...no splatter at all with the fire....then i proceeded to watch him kill 4 people in a roow with these shots where at best he should have only been wounding the guys. Instead he was easyily killing them. As for Slappy i watched him shot 6 guys in a row for various distances with very little aiming...and not much ammo to boot(firing to other side of valley in Col and killing in 3 round burst bascially). Now I know Suasage was probably not using an Aim bot just cause he missed on occasion but was curious if there was some script for shotguns to fire all rounds to same point or something. Not to mention Suasage said he was running three bots last time i saw him on EOF. Slappy was an out right cheat though. No way he could have nailed those guys that quickly from that far away with 3 round burst fire....but oh well

A7ESF · Post by **A7ESF** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 4:07 am

My appologies for letting my mind move faster then my fingers concerning the Cheaters List. I was thinking name and IP, but my mind was working too fast for my fingers and I missed the IP part. 
I have seen several demos of cheats in action, and to say the least, I was blown away. One was an aimbot. THe guy was suppsedly AFK and as the opposing team approched you could see him turn pointing directly at them. When I say turned, his feet never moved, he just rotated. 
When I jumped on EOF last night there were several people either claiming to be cheaing, or just blatenly cheating. I tried making several screen shots and demos, but not being an admin of any sort I wasn't able to pull IP's. I like playing on EOF because there are a lot of good players there and good people. I want to help SG1 make sure that server remains clean. Even if we do come up with a clan server. I know that there will not always be an admin in every server, but that doesnt mean we can' at least attempt to help them keep it clean. 
<IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif"> <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif"> <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif">