An E-mail I Received

[Dr.Death]

A quick note:

3. Death i think you will find its.. GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE, RAPPERS DO

LMAO

[PJ]

wow, this thread has had a long life...

It's nice to know what other PHXers think about things...

[DenKirson]

Thinking is good.

[Grudge]

Smacking your kids to teach them a lesson is , perhaps, a valuable tool in the parental arsenal, but as long as (this is what I believe anyhoo) your not hitting them to appease your anger or to get back at them for something they did,

[DenKirson]

That's what shooting people in video games is for!

Sidenote on a previous topic. The desire to ban games is from a balanced source, not just liberals.
The righties are against the sex, and the lefties are against the violence. The lefties started it with violence in Mortal Kombat (spawning the ESRB, which was a rational move for the direction videogames were going), but then things started looking better and the righties came right in against the introduction of many sexy females like Lara Croft.

This videogame ban is not a political dispute as much as it seems to be. All the '08 nominee wannabees are making it so only very recently to get votes from those who support this unconstitutional crap.

It is primarially driven by many interest groups that stand on both sides of the red-blue fence. Particularly parents who admit they bought the game for their children irresponsibly and then blame the games for no ill effects (their kids didn't even do anything "...yet!") and lawyers who can't get anymore "fatties at McDonalds" cases.

[CoolerKing]

Well this has been a truely interesting debate. I won't get into comparisons of Canada's and the U.S.A's gun control policy. For the record I like Canada's. I fully agree the the weapons themselve cannot be held responsible for the death of an individual but what you do with proper control is remove the guns from those who shouldn't have them and still allow the hunter to keep their weapons.

Well that said. If we can conclude that PHX is a good smattering of the typical American population, I myself have great hope that the USA will continue to grow and flourish as a nation based on the splendid individuals I have encounterd here.

Cheers!

[Starscream]

The only thing I know is that we used to jump off a bridge into a creek behind my house and go hiking/swimming there. Used to tear down the hill on our bikes and get up to 40 mph/60 kph without issue... we were wearing our bathing suit, a t-shirt, old shoes and a towel (to get caught in our spokes). That is it. No helmets made me laugh.

[EightyFour]

You guys remember in the 1980's when Dugens and Dragons role playing game was the devil. Ever sence that collage kid that played went around the sewers and under ground tunnels and eventually comited suacide. Of corse I guess it could have been the crack or the heroin that was pumping though his system. Naw, must have been books about demons and adventures, that's the cause of corse.

Video games are the new version of this same story. When you can't blame yourself or your kids than blame something that has nothing to do with it.

And I agree there were less problems but there was also a lack of information. How many people heard about AIDS in the late 60's and earily 70's, you know, the love not war people. It was there but it wasen't big enough at the time and we didn't know enough about it to start telling people "Hey, haveing sex can give you this incureable disaese that well eventualy kill you!"

The other thing about the good ol' days is that people forget the bad things that happened and remember the good. Like the depresstion in the 30's fallowed by WW2 in the 40's talk about duck and cover. fallowed by a Cuban missile crises that left everyone in fear and the first time sence Abraham Lincoin that a President was shot and a war that we fought for what seemed like no reason to the people fighting it.

Drug addiction, Disease, Chem weapons, Russian Nuclear Weapons, Biological weapons, economic collapse, and much, much more happened before we ever got to the 90's, I still remember the duck and cover air drills we used to have in class. Trust me, I believed if a nuclear bomb went off a block away I would be safe as long as I got under my desk in time.

I guess the point of what I'm saying is that things haven't changed, we just have more information. Besides the whole govermnment taking our freedoms away to "make us safe" I see that happen every day, and it pisses me off. It makes me sick to see the government as a whole get as big as it has. And to see our rights get sliced away like cheese on a cheese grader. But that's just me.

[PinkRabi]

I like chocolate

[EightyFour]

There will never be a law banning firearms in their entirety.
Not against the NRA's bastardization of the second amendment, and not against the full second amendment.

The government can regulate shipment, taxation, identification, and sale of firearms (meaning they can and have banned the importing and purchasing of certain firearms, like machine guns and assault rifles), but they cannot remove firearms from legal citizens' posession (unless that firearm was used for illicit acts or carried into federal property). The control of guns is a state issue. And as per the Second Amendment, the people in a state can amass their weapons and form a militia to ensure their land remains a free state (situation related to such as the Civil War).

If all firearms were somehow banned, everybody would go back to using crossbows and swords (yay for me), tools that are not traceable in the ways that bullets are, so the cops who are armed with nothing but wooden sticks will both have far less evidence of the crime against the culprits, but also will be far less successful when they have an encounter (except if they get upgraded to metal sticks and get some disarming and grappling techniques to compensate for the lack of an accurate ranged weapon).

Trained officers hit... 60% of the time with their well-maintained, properly fit guns.
Thugs in the street hit 10% of the time with their pawn shop-bound, functionally fucked up guns.

The citizenry will always have to deal with firearms in this nation, though shitty handguns amassing for 90% of gun violence are much better than the Thompsons and Browning Rifles during the olden days. A good thing to do for concerned families is to purchase a shotgun. Not a pistol, unless you perhaps live alone or for some reason you would need more than ten yards to make a shot. Robbers don't like shotguns: they're too big and not concealable for their purposes, but they'll swipe a pistol like it was a pearl necklace.

Shotguns are also a lot easier to maintain and control than pistols, as well (though revolvers are even more reliable and rigid). And to ensure safety and a means to only make the criminal flee instead of killing him (and cleaning up the mess of blood on your rug), is to use some reduced loads available to civilians, less pellets, much weaker, still more than enough instead of a .38 special.

The state have and can remove rifles, shotguns, and other firearms from your control/ownership. I live in California, recently AB50 was signed and passed by Arnold, this law took control of everyone in control/ownership of BWG .50 cal rifle. It has now become illigel to own/sell this weapon. The reason you might ask, it was argued that terrorist could purchase and use this weapon to put down helocopters. Even though there has been no vilont crime commited with this weapon in 70 years, but that's besides the point. Now this is what I find intresting, back in 1996 this bill has been over turned as AB2222 (think that's right) back than it was only thought of as crimenal use, but the fight was still there, just the creed changed when it became AB50.

The problem I have is the State government in California as well as the Federal Government are trying to ban all weapons, look at Britian, there aload to have a 3 shot shotgun and single shot rifles, and now there going after the 3 shot shotgun saying something to the effect of you don't need it becuase they have the single shot rifle and that dose any job.

Oh, I'd jst like to say Thompson and Browning are not olden days rifles, they are strong and healthy running companys atm, and police are not normal issued .38 specials they are issued 9mm automatics, most of the jamming issues have been corrected, and I know they are practaly the same caliper, just felt a little annoyed at that one.

And on the subject of reduced loads, bullets are ment to have a certain load for caliper and shell, I'm just wondering how reduced we are talking here, are we talking to the point that it can cause physical harm to the user. And guns don't kill, they may have that effect, but the purpose of a gun is to provide a shock to the nervasystem inhibiting someone from continueing action.

I must agree that the NRA dose some bastardization of the 2nd admendment but they are the only defence a gun owner has in America, and please don't tell me that the oppisition is playing fair, if everyone did, I'm sure the above actions wouldn't occur.

I would write a book on this subject but I'm sure everyone is tired of read this, as you can tell I am an avid believer in the right to bear arms, and that right for the government to stay out of what I have unless I commit some criminal action.

[Grudge]

you all are great Master-Debaters, got to love ya.

[PinkRabi]

Thats great EightyFour, but you never said wants wrong with Britain having a ban on guns, you just said you have a problem with it. But i fully support the ruling of getting rid of the 3shot shotgun as its true that 99% of jobs (excluding hunting a guy down) can be fulfiled with a single shot rifle.....

I agree with grude though, that we are all great Master-Baters...

[Grudge]

A 3 shot shotgun is excellent for duck hunting, well any fowl. clay pigeon enthusiasts may find it difficult to hit two clay pigeons if they have to reload their single shot after the first go. is deer legally shot with the shotgun in the UK? I know it is mandatory to use a shotgun for deer in the Lower part of Lower Michigan.

[DenKirson]

The state have and can remove rifles, shotguns, and other firearms from your control/ownership.

Yeah, I said that, the state passes personal gun laws; Guns in the state are the state's responsibility. The feds cannot do anything to your gun unless it is their jurisdiction or the situation is on a greater scale than a few states.

Oh, I'd jst like to say Thompson and Browning are not olden days rifles... police are not normal issued .38 specials they are issued 9mm automatics... just felt a little annoyed at that one.

Annoyed at what? The "revolver for cops in previous decades versus mafia guys with tommyguns bought off of gunshop owners on the corner" has nothing to do with the point of view on modern government gun laws. Two different posts related to two different topics.

And on the subject of reduced loads, bullets are ment to have a certain load for caliper and shell, I'm just wondering how reduced we are talking here

There are shells with lighter loads that fire with less velocity and lethality. Birdshot and Flechette over Buckshot and Slugs for home defense.

...the purpose of a gun is to provide a shock to the nervasystem inhibiting someone from continueing action.

The purpose of a gun is to launch a little piece of metal to chew up flesh and organs as a means to kill a person. They didn't make bows and slings by thinking "hey, I want to cripple that thing and run away!", no, I want it to die! You want to shock a nervous system, you punch the guy in the jaw or hit him with a tazer.

I must agree that the NRA dose some bastardization of the 2nd... and please don't tell me that the oppisition is playing fair...

Why the hell would I tell you that criminals play fair? Or the anti-gun rally? Fair doesn't matter to criminals, and fair doesn't matter in politics.

The anti-gun people are going against the constitution, they want to be safer but are going the wrong way by disarming themselves against armed assailants who are unaffected by all the extra gun laws passed.
NRA is doing good to keep firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizenry, but the political influence they have is swaying opinions for the wrong reasons.

[Undead_Mercenary]

How you guys know so much on these kinds of topics is beyond me. The only thing I can input in this is that recently, we've been having a gun problem in the Toronto area and quite a few people are getting shot. Apparently, these guns are being imported from the States, which isn't really surprising in the least. Maybe it's payback for the terrorists coming through Canada? (I don't know all my facts, so I may just be spouting shit for all I know).

Oh and I absolutly agree with Den. If you shoot someone with a gun, you usually want to kill him. You may get the case where you simply want to disarm (if you're a good shot), injure/disable, but usually you want that bullet to hit him where it hurts. If you want to disable someone via nervous system, a clonk on the head or a cattleprod to the back should do the trick

Now I wish I had a cattleprod of my own, so I could zap the retarded UPS driver that left 1000$ worth of PC equipment I ordered in my driveway when no one was home.