Believe it or not, Pink, I'm on your side. I don't talk about this stuff much here just because debates around politics never seem to end up in a good place. I personally don't think that the world is any safer with Saddam Hussein dead. In fact, his death most likely will make him a martyr to those who believe in his radical ideologies. There was never any proven ties to Saddam and 9/11 or WMDs.
Frankly, we had no business being in Iraq. Our war was with Osama bin Laden and he was in Afghanistan. That's where it should have stopped. Just because "Saddam tried to kill my daddy" isn't a valid reason to go to war and sacrifice the lives of thousand of Americans who have no right being over there. I support the troops, but I'm also very damn sympathetic to our reservists that signed up for a weekend a month to help with school and now have their lives on the line for nothing that supports the security of the US, just the security of the US oil companies.
And with that, I'll curtail my argument and statement with this. I would have much rather seen Saddam rot in jail than become a rallying cry to the Jihadists. His death didn't make the world any safer. In fact, it made it more dangerous.
-Arch
Saddam
what about the millions of people he and his crazy kids had tortured and killed, the money he squandered on lavish lifestyle while his people went without food shelter or any medical facillities or pharmacuetical supplies. Now that we are there we HAVE to be there. Saddam did send money to suicide bomber families after they blew their selves up in Isreal so he did support terrorism.
I hope I didn't brain my damage - homer j
While I am torn on many points of this issue, I must say I was glad to see the SOB die. Arch, as far as the Iraq and Afgan. issue, I believe we should have sent most of our forces to Afgan. to get Bin Laden and stayed out of Iraq. But I do have many friends in Iraq serving our country and I support them 100%. And as far as our reservists go, I was 1 of those reservists at 1 time, and I knew the risk and so should they.
Not jumping on any band wagon of bashing, just wanting to add my 2 cents about certain things:
That's part of the reason we're having to send in more troops now, it's part of the reason why the Army Chief of Staff during the beginning of the Iraq conflict (Schensecki, big sp there) was canned. He called for a much, much larger force because he knew WTF he was talking about. This whole "do more with less" bullshit attitude is part of the reason why the enlisted military, who does the actual fighting/ work, is so pissed at our current state of affairs. *But that's another can of worms.*
I can't agree with "that's where it should have stopped". Al Queda (sp) is a global entity. Terrorism is a global entity. This is a concept that's not sinking in for a lot of people. We have to be ready to respond, and react, to any place in the world. We don't have one big enemy all located in a single place. It's spread out everywhere, located everywhere. Vietnam not only taught us huge lessons on how to conduct/ carry out war, but it also taught all of our enemies how to conduct a successful war against us. And we're seeing it all over again.
It still boggles me how much crap people lay at Bush's doorstep thinking he controls.
*editted to put color in the quotes for reading clarity
Actually that's part of the beauty of the net, very little regulation. That's the way the net has been set up, as a way to express/ exchange ideas/ information with little control. It's the reason why China has most of the net blocked because of the fact people are able to take in vast sums of information and form their own opinions. And, once a video like this is put on a site like Youtube, you're pretty much fucked after that.And some may say that it isnt anyones fault it got all over the net apart from the guy who filmed it, well i think there is enough Governmental control other things that if they didnt want this out there, then it wouldnt be
This is something I agree with. We should've stayed in Afgan until the job was done there. Fuck, we're still not done there. But once we went into Iraq Rumsfeld's decision to send in a woefully small force to try to occupy/ police Iraq (smaller more agile force, /lol) was so flawed that's it's not even funny. I see he didn't spend much time learning about post WW2 Europe.Frankly, we had no business being in Iraq. Our war was with Osama bin Laden and he was in Afghanistan. That's where it should have stopped.
That's part of the reason we're having to send in more troops now, it's part of the reason why the Army Chief of Staff during the beginning of the Iraq conflict (Schensecki, big sp there) was canned. He called for a much, much larger force because he knew WTF he was talking about. This whole "do more with less" bullshit attitude is part of the reason why the enlisted military, who does the actual fighting/ work, is so pissed at our current state of affairs. *But that's another can of worms.*
I can't agree with "that's where it should have stopped". Al Queda (sp) is a global entity. Terrorism is a global entity. This is a concept that's not sinking in for a lot of people. We have to be ready to respond, and react, to any place in the world. We don't have one big enemy all located in a single place. It's spread out everywhere, located everywhere. Vietnam not only taught us huge lessons on how to conduct/ carry out war, but it also taught all of our enemies how to conduct a successful war against us. And we're seeing it all over again.
These are the same people who say we didn't land on the moon, there was a grassy knoll shooter and a multitude of other anti-government conspiracies.I have also heard that theres some shit going on about how the whole hannging was staged and that good old Saddam struck a deal with the US to tell us what ever we wanted to know if we spared his life.
Please see my reply to Pink about this. The fact that I was seeing a YTMD joke about this about an hour after his death kinda underscores how fast information is disseminated in this day and age. The speed at which we move information is faster than ever before. That phone more than likely had an internet connection too, so sharing it between friends (Al Jeezra, other Iraqi Government officials, terrorists) wouldn't have proven too hard.i cant believe you found that so easily. You would think that it would have been cencored in some way. Then again, Bush probably made it clear he wanted it seen so ppl would have closure.
It still boggles me how much crap people lay at Bush's doorstep thinking he controls.
*editted to put color in the quotes for reading clarity
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This_name_sucks
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I really didn't want to give my two pennies on this because I've avoided the whole situation as much as possible. However, I need to agree with Arch. I am a man of no position to judge Saddam Hussein as a person because I did not know the man, and that which I do know is the result of many other people's opinions and interpretations. Assuming he was a bad man, he should have been punished, that cannot be argued. However, killing him has merely stirred up more media coverage and riotous members of Iraq's community.
Imprisonment, though entirely pointless as a method of teaching Saddam a lesson from which he can exercise good actions, would most certainly have been a better option. The man is smart, we can't deny that. He cannot have spent all of his time as a dictator without thinking once that his actions would have consequences, should anyone bring him down. And perhaps that was his driving force; the fear of losing his power. But he must have known that his actions would result in a severe punishment, and I feel imprisonment would have been more apt than hanging. I cannot pass sentence because I am not a victim, nor am I qualified in law, but as a person, I feel that his actions would be best punished by the removal of his power and freedom. Life in jail is not life, nor is it death. It is a limbo between the two and hope would dictate that there's a chance he would learn the error of his way. But regardless of whether he'd learn, it would have been far less detrimental than hanging him publicly.
Alright, time for the other side of the argument. No one but Lord God himself can break him out of the prison he's in now. It's over with, we can get on with our lives and never worry about him doing anything terrible again. It is closure for a lot of people, knowing that the man who has taken so much from them is dead. In some ways it's a reflection of our sick nature because so many of us have taken so much joy in the death of a man. But he was a man capable of evil action and his evil actions cannot be effected any longer.
The problem I have with Iraq is that it is challenging an age old saying: Don't count your chickens before they've hatched. We have made so many assumptions about Iraq's future without our intervention. We assume that without us there would be a power struggle. Step back a moment and take a look at Iraq. Am I not right when I say that we, metaphorically speaking, are struggling for power too? We are trying to enforce our way of life, which we so arrogantly, yet arguably correctly, believe is better than the way of life that they would end up living. We wish to establish a democracy in a country that has lived under a dictatorship for a very long time. Perhaps the greatest irony is that as a democracy, many members of Iraq's community would vote against democracy. The only way to enforce a system of democracy would be to detach this Western image that is associated with it. Men of words are capable of turning the minds and bodies of many into a mind and body of one, and this ability to rally people is what is causing us such problems. So many people have been indoctrinated with this belief that the West are the soldiers of satan himself. They don't resist us because they don't like the idea; that would be constructive disagreement. They resist us because they believe we are evil, and that our way of life is wrong.
This isn't really going anywhere, I'm just letting my thoughts flow free. However, in summary Saddam would have been better punished by imprisonment (that opinion can change if anyone can give me a good reason as to why it should). Our presence in Iraq, though for a noble cause, has been incorrectly justified, and our means of achieving goals, that we aren't even sure of, are totally inadequate.
Since when has politics had a place in The Order of the Phoenix?
Imprisonment, though entirely pointless as a method of teaching Saddam a lesson from which he can exercise good actions, would most certainly have been a better option. The man is smart, we can't deny that. He cannot have spent all of his time as a dictator without thinking once that his actions would have consequences, should anyone bring him down. And perhaps that was his driving force; the fear of losing his power. But he must have known that his actions would result in a severe punishment, and I feel imprisonment would have been more apt than hanging. I cannot pass sentence because I am not a victim, nor am I qualified in law, but as a person, I feel that his actions would be best punished by the removal of his power and freedom. Life in jail is not life, nor is it death. It is a limbo between the two and hope would dictate that there's a chance he would learn the error of his way. But regardless of whether he'd learn, it would have been far less detrimental than hanging him publicly.
Alright, time for the other side of the argument. No one but Lord God himself can break him out of the prison he's in now. It's over with, we can get on with our lives and never worry about him doing anything terrible again. It is closure for a lot of people, knowing that the man who has taken so much from them is dead. In some ways it's a reflection of our sick nature because so many of us have taken so much joy in the death of a man. But he was a man capable of evil action and his evil actions cannot be effected any longer.
The problem I have with Iraq is that it is challenging an age old saying: Don't count your chickens before they've hatched. We have made so many assumptions about Iraq's future without our intervention. We assume that without us there would be a power struggle. Step back a moment and take a look at Iraq. Am I not right when I say that we, metaphorically speaking, are struggling for power too? We are trying to enforce our way of life, which we so arrogantly, yet arguably correctly, believe is better than the way of life that they would end up living. We wish to establish a democracy in a country that has lived under a dictatorship for a very long time. Perhaps the greatest irony is that as a democracy, many members of Iraq's community would vote against democracy. The only way to enforce a system of democracy would be to detach this Western image that is associated with it. Men of words are capable of turning the minds and bodies of many into a mind and body of one, and this ability to rally people is what is causing us such problems. So many people have been indoctrinated with this belief that the West are the soldiers of satan himself. They don't resist us because they don't like the idea; that would be constructive disagreement. They resist us because they believe we are evil, and that our way of life is wrong.
This isn't really going anywhere, I'm just letting my thoughts flow free. However, in summary Saddam would have been better punished by imprisonment (that opinion can change if anyone can give me a good reason as to why it should). Our presence in Iraq, though for a noble cause, has been incorrectly justified, and our means of achieving goals, that we aren't even sure of, are totally inadequate.
Since when has politics had a place in The Order of the Phoenix?
Seeing how you didn't personally know Sadam, so you can't judge him evil or not, I take it that you can't judge Hitler as evil because you didn't personally know him either, right?However, in summary Saddam would have been better punished by imprisonment (that opinion can change if anyone can give me a good reason as to why it should).
One simple reasons why he had to die versus life imprisonment:
That's what Iraqi law dictated. Seeing how he was judged by Iraq law, by an all Iraqi judicial system, we have to respect that decision. We let them handle that. If US/ Britian would have tried and killed him, the international outrage would've been insane, the trial declared a sham and so on.
If the point of imprisonment is rehabilitation, and you know the person will never be rehabilitated, what's the point of prison?Imprisonment, though entirely pointless as a method of teaching Saddam a lesson from which he can exercise good actions, would most certainly have been a better option.
Oh, he knew the consequences of his actions, but he knew how to disuade people from trying to bring him down. All dictators fear losing power. That's why they kill anyone who opposes them. On the day he assumed president of Iraq, he went to the parliment building and declared about a 1/3 of the people there enemies of the state. They were then taken out side and executed. He had that filmed and for about the next three weeks, that ran on the Baath controlled television network continuously. Get the message? Oppose me and I'm going to kill you. Of course he took it a step further. He killed most of your family too. That's the way he rose to power. That's how he acted while in power.He cannot have spent all of his time as a dictator without thinking once that his actions would have consequences, should anyone bring him down. And perhaps that was his driving force; the fear of losing his power.
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Undead_Mercenary
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I think I agree with the whole imprisoning Saddam opinion. I know killing him may satisfy a lot of people (mostly the Iraqis who lived under his regime), but that isn't really suffering for his crimes. But hey, I guess the people wanted to see him hang, so whatever floats their boat.
As far as the Iraq War goes, I can never understand why there isn't more protest going on. I mean, what's the casualty count now, over 3,000? And for what? Establishing democracy? Yeah, like shoving an ideal done someone's throat is going to work. More like it's for controlling the oil (but that's just personal opinion). And the constant arrogance of the Bush administration never stops amazing me. It's like book after book and report after report prove that the war is really going badly and that US troops need to get the hell out of there. Instead, the White House reponds like "How about you shut your mouth and let us do our job? We know what we're doing." Hmmm, from what I've heard, this war has gone on longer than WWII (or was it longer than the American participation in WWII? Can't remember which). Even the Generals were criticising the Iraq startegies, yet most were ignored or even replaced. I find it confusing how this is still allowed to go on.
But whatever, all I can say is I hope your soldiers will be able to leave Iraq safe and sound as soon as possible. I find it hard to believe things will get any better, and it's too bad your President refuses to accept that.
As far as the Iraq War goes, I can never understand why there isn't more protest going on. I mean, what's the casualty count now, over 3,000? And for what? Establishing democracy? Yeah, like shoving an ideal done someone's throat is going to work. More like it's for controlling the oil (but that's just personal opinion). And the constant arrogance of the Bush administration never stops amazing me. It's like book after book and report after report prove that the war is really going badly and that US troops need to get the hell out of there. Instead, the White House reponds like "How about you shut your mouth and let us do our job? We know what we're doing." Hmmm, from what I've heard, this war has gone on longer than WWII (or was it longer than the American participation in WWII? Can't remember which). Even the Generals were criticising the Iraq startegies, yet most were ignored or even replaced. I find it confusing how this is still allowed to go on.
But whatever, all I can say is I hope your soldiers will be able to leave Iraq safe and sound as soon as possible. I find it hard to believe things will get any better, and it's too bad your President refuses to accept that.
Last edited by Undead_Mercenary on Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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This_name_sucks
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Second query by Thowarr: I totally agree it's ineffective as a method of rehabilitation when the sentence is life. But even if he could never leave the confines of a single building, getting him to understand the error of his way and maybe giving the people he'd tortured for so long an apology, is still worth attaining. Sure, it can't bring back the thousands that he'd killed, or remove the scarring memories of many Iraqi citizens. But the point of a punishment is to make someone recognise their error. If every time someone did something wrong, we killed them, there wouldn't be many "we" left. The man was evil, and I can't excuse that. I also don't believe in some fairytale world where good always wins over evil and everything can be made happy if we just give people a chance. But I figure that despite the effectiveness as a learning aid, avoiding the excitement of a public hanging was a far better choice. And in the same way that I can't assume that he could be rehabilitated, you cannot assume that he couldn't be rehabilitated. No one knew what went on in Saddam's head, that's what made him so dangerous.
With your first query Thowarr, I can't judge Hitler as being evil. I'm only told he's evil, and on making a decision about him, having no personal encounter with the man, I would say he is evil. But I could only truly say he were evil, and believe it totally if I knew the man personally, which I never will.
I also understand that the hanging was a part of Iraqi law. I do not dispute Iraqi law. If they sentenced him to be hanged publicly, that's there system and they're entitled to it. But my opinion, which I cannot help but have, is that imprisonment would have been a far better option.
And I'm glad we can at least agree he was power crazy Thowarr
With your first query Thowarr, I can't judge Hitler as being evil. I'm only told he's evil, and on making a decision about him, having no personal encounter with the man, I would say he is evil. But I could only truly say he were evil, and believe it totally if I knew the man personally, which I never will.
I also understand that the hanging was a part of Iraqi law. I do not dispute Iraqi law. If they sentenced him to be hanged publicly, that's there system and they're entitled to it. But my opinion, which I cannot help but have, is that imprisonment would have been a far better option.
And I'm glad we can at least agree he was power crazy Thowarr
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Archangelus
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While I feel very bad for those individuals, there are many Iraqis (probably the vast majority if they were asked) that would argue that their quality of life under Saddam than the life they are living now in a war-torn country that borders on a state of invasion (US/UN) and civil war.Grudge wrote:what about the millions of people he and his crazy kids had tortured and killed, the money he squandered on lavish lifestyle while his people went without food shelter or any medical facillities or pharmacuetical supplies.
Yes, but I think it's completely for the wrong reason. The political perception of the US would be shattered if we left now (the rest of the world is angry that we went in, but knows the consequences of a rapid departure). Bush Jr. has frankly created this generation's Vietnam with soldiers that don't want to be there, soldiers that will get little respect from the world for trying to uphold freedom (because of the leaders that put them there), and a growing fatality count against a group we can't completely eliminate.Grudge wrote:Now that we are there we HAVE to be there.
As far as the terrorism that was supported against Israel, once again, I feel sorry that anyone should have to live in fear of terrorism, but the acts were not against us and we (US) have to many domestic issues to spread our resources so thin to help others that in the end do not share our goals (Note: I have zero against Israel at all, but it doesn't help when the US spends much time, energy, and resources on a peace process that Israel is just as guilty of violating)Grudge wrote:Saddam did send money to suicide bomber families after they blew their selves up in Isreal so he did support terrorism.
Well, I can't say that I don't understand where you're coming from, but I still state that with his death he becomes a rallying cry. With his imprisonment, he becomes a shell of a man, but nothing to rally around. His death is widely considered to be driven by the US.Dr. Death wrote:While I am torn on many points of this issue, I must say I was glad to see the SOB die.
I do support the troops and the efforts they are putting forth. I just feel bad that the value the US and the world gets from them being there isn't as great as it could be performing other efforts elsewhere. As far as the reservists go, the Army reservists definitely knew the risks, and if this was a war over something truely threatening our way of life, then I would have no qualms about it, but the fact of the matter is Iraq should have never been part of the battleplan and now Bush believes the answer is more troops. God help us all. Oh, and the reservists that I do believe have zero cause to be there are the National Guard reservists. Those individuals signed up for the National Guard which is an organization for domestic defense. Bush's use of those individuals in Iraq is insufferable and those were the ones I had in mind when making my original statement.Dr. Death wrote:But I do have many friends in Iraq serving our country and I support them 100%. And as far as our reservists go, I was 1 of those reservists at 1 time, and I knew the risk and so should they.
Amen.Thowarr wrote: Quote:
And some may say that it isnt anyones fault it got all over the net apart from the guy who filmed it, well i think there is enough Governmental control other things that if they didnt want this out there, then it wouldnt be
Actually that's part of the beauty of the net, very little regulation. That's the way the net has been set up, as a way to express/ exchange ideas/ information with little control.
I agree with your point and I was well aware that this argument was coming. I guess my point was that we cannot use the threat of terrorism to be an open invitation to declare war (or a "military engagement") anywhere in the world. The threat of terrorism has been used to violate our rights at home and a political rallying cry ("Hi. We're the Republicans. Vote for us or the Terrorists win.) Also, if you look at the main reason the US is a target for terrorism, it's because we're everywhere. We have bases where countries don't want us (anymore at least...). We are not the world police. I'm sorry....we're not.Thowarr wrote:I can't agree with "that's where it should have stopped". Al Queda (sp) is a global entity. Terrorism is a global entity. This is a concept that's not sinking in for a lot of people. We have to be ready to respond, and react, to any place in the world. We don't have one big enemy all located in a single place. It's spread out everywhere, located everywhere.
How many of us were holding up our lives until he was killed? (looks around - no one stands up). That's what I thought. I think closure was gained for many the day he was captured. It was over. He was never going to be in power again and most likely he would rot in jail. For those that didn't find it there, they found it in court. Like I stated before, most Iraqis will tell you that they had a better quality of life before we struck. The only thing he had left to gain was martyrdom and we gave it to him. Him rotting in jail would not have given them that.This_Name_Sucks! wrote:It is closure for a lot of people, knowing that the man who has taken so much from them is dead.
Actually, that's what we say out of one side of our mouth. The other side is saying that we wish to establish a base in a central location in the Middle East for better "security". Oh, and by the way.....cheap oil is nice too. Well, cheap for the oil companies.This_Name_Sucks! wrote:We wish to establish a democracy in a country that has lived under a dictatorship for a very long time.
Actually, if you remember, the UN had to sign off on the new Iraqi constitution which contained clauses regarding the penalties for treason (which is what the true charge was against Saddam - treason against the soverignty of Iraq via the genocide of the opposing political faction). So, in a sense, the US/UN was signing his death sentence. I love the CNN news stories that we tried to "talk them out of it". Right......Thowarr wrote:That's what Iraqi law dictated. Seeing how he was judged by Iraq law, by an all Iraqi judicial system, we have to respect that decision. We let them handle that. If US/ Britian would have tried and killed him, the international outrage would've been insane, the trial declared a sham and so on.
Well, that's just one point of prison. (Note: I would have loved to see Saddam crocheting mittens.) I could reiterate my point about martyrdom, but I think I've beaten that horse down pretty well. In fact, my club's getting sticky now....get it (horse=glue).Thowarr wrote:If the point of imprisonment is rehabilitation, and you know the person will never be rehabilitated, what's the point of prison?
I will not lie and say i am talking from an unbiased view, I HATE the guy like no one will beleive. 9/11 was part of the reason i decided to join. I would not have felt very good if they would have imprisoned him. I would have felt he got out of his punishment because he gets to live even longer, when he caused all the suffering he did. Also as far as the Iraq citizens claiming that their quality of life is no better. Yes you see that, but do you ever see them thanking the US forces for helping them? The media always shows what will get more attention from the public. Just like when a military member receives an award or does something to help the community, do you hear about it from the mass media? I know i haven't. But i definately see when anyone in the US forces messes up or breaks the law. Hell they get the front page with a big ass headline. The media is worthless in my opinion. Also we have been chasing terrorists and terrorism for who knows how long, now we are in iraq and it is coming to us, fighters from afgan would retreat to iraq, which i believe justifies why we went there. I can see where you are all coming from but i refuse to say no your wrong to any of you because I have played against almost all of you and i know that would be wrong and not what we are about. I will end this rant with this, I am happy he is gone plain and simple.
well it sucks (the war I mean) wether your for or against it. My Brother is a Marine and he is on tour in Baghdad and he tells me (like Neo says) alot of Iraqi's love us and thank us for being there and you never see or hear of that. comparing this to a world war or Vietnam is hard to do, and the casualty rate is really pretty low if your going to compare the deaths from the same amount of time in WWII or Vietnam. (someone will tell me that one death is too many)
Last edited by Grudge on Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I hope I didn't brain my damage - homer j
Yes Grudge I agree, comparing this to Vietnam is very hard to do. The only thing that is compareable is the "Guerilla Warefare". Here is a fact about the Tet Offensive in Vietnam:
" In January 1968, the number of US troops killed in action was 1,163; the death toll increased to 2,197 in February; in the next three months, another 5,000 would loose their lives in battle."
As far as keeping that prick alive in prison? Can you say Charles Manson?
This SOB has been in prison for how long and still says that if he ever gets out he will kill again. Sick bastards like him and Saddam WILL NOT reform. Did you see any of Saddams trial? He swears that he did nothing wrong. This man deserved to die.
" In January 1968, the number of US troops killed in action was 1,163; the death toll increased to 2,197 in February; in the next three months, another 5,000 would loose their lives in battle."
As far as keeping that prick alive in prison? Can you say Charles Manson?
This SOB has been in prison for how long and still says that if he ever gets out he will kill again. Sick bastards like him and Saddam WILL NOT reform. Did you see any of Saddams trial? He swears that he did nothing wrong. This man deserved to die.
1) i agree we didnt have just cause to go to iraq
2) sadams death was the only thing that made the mistake in any way a good thing
3) we should have focused on afganistan for sure
4) making dictators responsible for their actions does NOT make the world a less safe place
5) sadam got what he had coming to him
6) we need to let the iraqies do what they want with their country and exit as safely and swiftly as possible
7) to do 6) we do need more troops in so that we can safely retreat to our bases and then out of country
they been fighting for 2000+ years and we aint gonna fix that
9) let them all kill each other and let god sort it out
10) the number of american soldier casualties in iraq over such a long time are actually quite miniscule in comparison with any military action of equal size (we have not even gotten up to the same number as died in 9/11 yet have we?)
just a few yaz opinions based on everything I am reading
2) sadams death was the only thing that made the mistake in any way a good thing
3) we should have focused on afganistan for sure
4) making dictators responsible for their actions does NOT make the world a less safe place
5) sadam got what he had coming to him
6) we need to let the iraqies do what they want with their country and exit as safely and swiftly as possible
7) to do 6) we do need more troops in so that we can safely retreat to our bases and then out of country
they been fighting for 2000+ years and we aint gonna fix that9) let them all kill each other and let god sort it out
10) the number of american soldier casualties in iraq over such a long time are actually quite miniscule in comparison with any military action of equal size (we have not even gotten up to the same number as died in 9/11 yet have we?)
just a few yaz opinions based on everything I am reading
FTMFW? And no our casualties have not reached that amount. Not even close to it yet. Yes we are losing great people out there, they all knew the risks, hell at least 25% of the volunteered to go there. Just like weir, a good friend of mine. She volunteered to deploy from my duty station which is a none deployable unit. No all are just stuck over there, we are told before we sign up and and we all take the oath to protect our country. Yes i am very saddened every time i see that i have lost a brother or sister, but i am also proud when i see things like someone that embodied everything we are taught and set his own safety aside to protect his unit. He is getting a medal of honor. That is what we strive for, to serve our brothers, sisters, family, and corps.
The more i read my own posts the more i see i am turning into a Jarhead, heh Marine Corps Brainwashing at its best there boys and girls.
The more i read my own posts the more i see i am turning into a Jarhead, heh Marine Corps Brainwashing at its best there boys and girls.
Açieeed! style by