no firewall here, and I dont get problems *shrug*... the more challenging your security is the more likely a real hacker will try to break in... it is all about the challenge. I have nothing on my pc that I care about for privacy so I leave it wide open and they just brush right by me.
Just my opinion of it all.
Shuv It Hax0rs
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Archangelus
- Posts: 4286
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:01 pm
- Contact:
I disagree, but I also see your point. If I can't get into your machine, there must be something to hide, right? Well, from someone who has used both approaches and has suffered conseuqences in either, I think that you do get more attacks when you defend, but I haven't been hacked since I started with the firewalls, and I had been hacked 3 times before when I used nothing....
-Arch
-Arch
You are right about hackers wanting your data but remember a good black hat doesn't want your information.... he wants your processing power and bandwidth to launch attacks or better yet to cover his tracks. I do feel that people should have at broadband firewall or at least a software one as a basic step to protect the rest of us on the net from people that have too much free time on their hands.
I know when I used to have more free time on my hands if someone even tried to hack me, not just port scan but really try to get in. I would hack back and usually get in and print on their high cost consumable printer a screenshot of the attempted hack with their IP and a message that their workstation is either compromised and a hacker is using their system and they need to fix it.... or go back to hacker school and stop using script-kiddies.... Oh… did I mention that I would print 25-50 full color high quality. I would even go to the length of downloading and install the correct print driver so everything would print crystal clear…. If I didn’t get in I would give them the KOD… (Knock of Death)… which usually didn’t kill the machine but would knock it off the network until they rebooted.
Ahhh the good ole days…..
I know when I used to have more free time on my hands if someone even tried to hack me, not just port scan but really try to get in. I would hack back and usually get in and print on their high cost consumable printer a screenshot of the attempted hack with their IP and a message that their workstation is either compromised and a hacker is using their system and they need to fix it.... or go back to hacker school and stop using script-kiddies.... Oh… did I mention that I would print 25-50 full color high quality. I would even go to the length of downloading and install the correct print driver so everything would print crystal clear…. If I didn’t get in I would give them the KOD… (Knock of Death)… which usually didn’t kill the machine but would knock it off the network until they rebooted.
Ahhh the good ole days…..
Interesting discussion.
Yaz! BOY! Get something. ZA is free. ZA makes you stealthed.
You see, when new bugs in software are found, say a service on your Windows machine, guess who they're (the hackers) gonna try to blast away on first? YES, YOU. That's because they see you. Thats the problem, they know you're there. You respond to all ICMP requests, you report "closed" ports, etc ... tsk, tsk. You're a floating ethereal puching bag.
And I don't buy that you really don't have anything to hide. Yes you do. You're a honest working man with an identity. Thats all some people want. And like IDO said, your machine becomes a playground for hackers setting up IRC channels, hiding rootkits, launching attacks...
Your passwords sent over the wire could become endangered as well... ZA is free. And I agree BlackICE is easily on par with ZA, so get something!!
Yaz! BOY! Get something. ZA is free. ZA makes you stealthed.
You see, when new bugs in software are found, say a service on your Windows machine, guess who they're (the hackers) gonna try to blast away on first? YES, YOU. That's because they see you. Thats the problem, they know you're there. You respond to all ICMP requests, you report "closed" ports, etc ... tsk, tsk. You're a floating ethereal puching bag.
And I don't buy that you really don't have anything to hide. Yes you do. You're a honest working man with an identity. Thats all some people want. And like IDO said, your machine becomes a playground for hackers setting up IRC channels, hiding rootkits, launching attacks...
Your passwords sent over the wire could become endangered as well... ZA is free. And I agree BlackICE is easily on par with ZA, so get something!!
Last edited by XoR on Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<img src="http://www.lordxor.com/images/wolfhelm2.jpg">
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Falcon187420
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 11:43 pm
Listen to IDO, he knows what he's talking about. I personally have a hardwall firewall (i.e. router) and a software firewall. With both you are pretty secure, but you also need to update your virus and OS.
Again, I love this stuff...interesting...and CISSP sounds like a good cert to have. After I work on my CCNP I'll do a lil security certs too.
Again, I love this stuff...interesting...and CISSP sounds like a good cert to have. After I work on my CCNP I'll do a lil security certs too.
ok guys here is an update.
think I finally found out the problem..:
They were flooding my modem with TCP/IP messages. hoping to eventually connect into my modem and use it has like a second power source for more internet speed..which also makes it so I can't use the internet at all. In a matter of 10 seconds my 'packets sent' wass up to 756,093. Tell me that doesn't put a knot in your stomache eh? I've never reached that high....ever.
And you were right suspecting those 2 programs...Net21.exe and some other one. When I was being flooded I tried to use Black Ice to block'em, which didn't work. Then I remembered what you said and hit ctrl+alt+del to bring up the task box. I saw that both of those programs were running....ended both of them and the flood immediatly stopped. I have no freaking clue wtf those programs are.
So yup.
think I finally found out the problem..:
They were flooding my modem with TCP/IP messages. hoping to eventually connect into my modem and use it has like a second power source for more internet speed..which also makes it so I can't use the internet at all. In a matter of 10 seconds my 'packets sent' wass up to 756,093. Tell me that doesn't put a knot in your stomache eh? I've never reached that high....ever.
And you were right suspecting those 2 programs...Net21.exe and some other one. When I was being flooded I tried to use Black Ice to block'em, which didn't work. Then I remembered what you said and hit ctrl+alt+del to bring up the task box. I saw that both of those programs were running....ended both of them and the flood immediatly stopped. I have no freaking clue wtf those programs are.
So yup.
--take a look around
hmm, *ponders why he has never had a problem*
only problem I have ever had was virus's on emails. *shrug*
I have to say relative to many of the people in PHX I am a computer ignorant fool... but relative to the general public I am pretty much a superuser.
For Xor's sake I promise when I get my new box (should be about 3 weeks) I will put ZA up... checked out black ice on a friends pc, didnt like it.
only problem I have ever had was virus's on emails. *shrug*
I have to say relative to many of the people in PHX I am a computer ignorant fool... but relative to the general public I am pretty much a superuser.
For Xor's sake I promise when I get my new box (should be about 3 weeks) I will put ZA up... checked out black ice on a friends pc, didnt like it.
In truth, ZoneAlarm was one of the first mainstream program to do this, and this was one of the early problems with BlackICE, because it didn't block outbound access.
BlackICE learned that in todays world, attack signature analysis isn't enough and later implimented outbound access control.
So either way you go, you should be set.
Some games do not like to be backgrounded in windows, so it can be a royal pain to check the checkbox to allow access. But you can always do it manually. In the end, it's worth it.
BlackICE learned that in todays world, attack signature analysis isn't enough and later implimented outbound access control.
So either way you go, you should be set.
Some games do not like to be backgrounded in windows, so it can be a royal pain to check the checkbox to allow access. But you can always do it manually. In the end, it's worth it.
For those that still think they don't need any protection for their connection:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2007217
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle
Hackers have found a new way to turn your home PC into the enemy.
The complicated attack involves hackers sending a virus that secretly turns your computer into a pornographic Web site. When others use their credit cards to register, your computer transmits the numbers to the hackers.
Then when the identity thefts are reported, the culprits are harder to catch than if they they were operating from their own computers. That's because your PC, and thousands of others, are disguising the real source.
A few weeks ago, the hacking operation, using a Houston Internet service provider as its base, infected more than 1,000 home computers and entered the national spotlight.
Since then, those who track the spread of computer viruses say the operation has stopped. But it's probably not over.
"We've had a virus problem for 15 years," said Richard Smith, a Boston-based independent researcher. "It's getting worse, not better."
Smith predicted that within the next few months, the Russian hacking operation will reappear, from its originators or inspired copycats.
Software experts tracked this sort of attack, called "migmaf," short for "migrant mafia," on July 10 to a server on Rackshack, a division of the Houston-based Internet service provider Everyones Internet.
This latest innovation in virus-inflicted spam illustrates how important it is for home users to raise their defenses.
Hackers have long targeted business computer servers. But as computer security experts have learned to shut those sites down quicker, hackers have turned to home computers. RESOURCES
• Graphic: How they do it
Victims of the hijackers often don't even know that their computers are hosting pornographic Web sites, much less serving as fronts to steal credit card numbers. Acts as simple as downloading an e-mail attachment or software can start the problem.
These attackers are drawn to home PCs for two reasons:
· Many home users are hooked up to high-speed lines that can handle traffic that once could only flow through commercial servers. This allows the hackers to quickly move from PC to PC, making it harder to shut them down.
· Home users are far less likely to have installed effective defenses against the viruses.
"Home computers are much better targets," Smith said. "Home users don't understand security very much. They don't really have anyone to turn to, to learn security."
This new style of hacking comes at a time when home users are getting more and more spam laced with viruses, said Mark Sunner, chief technical officer with MessageLabs, a New York-based company that manages e-mail security for businesses.
"Spam is really moving into a whole new league of subversiveness," Sunner said. "This is moving right in the realms of actual real computer crimes. Machines are being hijacked."
Over 60 percent of all spam intercepted by MessageLabs contained viruses, Sunner said.
Officials at Symantec and Network Associates said their antivirus software would be able to protect consumers from most viruses, and particularly this hacking operation.
Symantec's Norton AntiVirus costs about $50. Network Associates' McAfee Virus Scan Online costs about $35 for one year.
"Antivirus software is always a good way to go," said Craig Schmugar, a virus research engineer with Network Associates' Aver Antivirus Emergency Response team.
Experts also recommend not opening any e-mail attachment that is unexpected, updating your antivirus software regularly and purchasing a personal firewall, which can cost around $50.
"It's like locking the doors on your car," Kingwood resident Jim Toney said. "A persistent and focused thief can get into the car, but locking your doors keeps the joy riders out."
Toney, a user of Everyones Internet, has already installed antivirus software on his Macintosh and plans to purchase a personal firewall soon.
One indication of how hard it is to block all the new attacks is the problems faced by Internet service providers, which say they have been unwitting parties to them.
In the case of a Rackshack server hosting the pornographic Web site, the server communicated with the other home computers, which displayed images from the site on the Rackshack machine but hid the site's real location.
The space on the Rackshack server was rented by the hackers, who signed an agreement to not break the Houston company's rules, which include a zero tolerance policy toward spam. Even when the hackers broke those rules, Everyone's Internet officials were not aware of the problems the site was creating until virus experts alerted them.
"With the number of servers we have, it's hard for us to monitor everything," said Jeff Lowenberg, Everyones Internet vice president of operations. "If we were made aware of it, we would take action immediately."
With the Rackshack server at the center of the hacking operation, some experts are blaming local service providers, calling on the companies to take more responsibility for protecting their customers.
"The pressure should be put on ISPs to include scanning technologies to their own services they provide," said Sunner of MessageLabs.
Internet service providers should have more than just traditional antivirus software -- they should be using scanning technology that can predict potential viruses, Sunner added.
But local Internet providers said there's not much they can do to protect consumers.
"We're just like the highway system; we're delivering traffic from here to there," said Jonah Yokubaitis, CEO of Houston-based Internet service provider Texas.net. "The main problem is irresponsible use of the Internet by a lot of consumers, and they want to blame anyone but themselves."
Yokubaitis said scanning technology would not only be pricey, but also would clog up Internet traffic.
"It would be like a toll booth in the middle of I-10 in Houston but would cause a traffic jam from here to Florida," he said.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2007217
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle
Hackers have found a new way to turn your home PC into the enemy.
The complicated attack involves hackers sending a virus that secretly turns your computer into a pornographic Web site. When others use their credit cards to register, your computer transmits the numbers to the hackers.
Then when the identity thefts are reported, the culprits are harder to catch than if they they were operating from their own computers. That's because your PC, and thousands of others, are disguising the real source.
A few weeks ago, the hacking operation, using a Houston Internet service provider as its base, infected more than 1,000 home computers and entered the national spotlight.
Since then, those who track the spread of computer viruses say the operation has stopped. But it's probably not over.
"We've had a virus problem for 15 years," said Richard Smith, a Boston-based independent researcher. "It's getting worse, not better."
Smith predicted that within the next few months, the Russian hacking operation will reappear, from its originators or inspired copycats.
Software experts tracked this sort of attack, called "migmaf," short for "migrant mafia," on July 10 to a server on Rackshack, a division of the Houston-based Internet service provider Everyones Internet.
This latest innovation in virus-inflicted spam illustrates how important it is for home users to raise their defenses.
Hackers have long targeted business computer servers. But as computer security experts have learned to shut those sites down quicker, hackers have turned to home computers. RESOURCES
• Graphic: How they do it
Victims of the hijackers often don't even know that their computers are hosting pornographic Web sites, much less serving as fronts to steal credit card numbers. Acts as simple as downloading an e-mail attachment or software can start the problem.
These attackers are drawn to home PCs for two reasons:
· Many home users are hooked up to high-speed lines that can handle traffic that once could only flow through commercial servers. This allows the hackers to quickly move from PC to PC, making it harder to shut them down.
· Home users are far less likely to have installed effective defenses against the viruses.
"Home computers are much better targets," Smith said. "Home users don't understand security very much. They don't really have anyone to turn to, to learn security."
This new style of hacking comes at a time when home users are getting more and more spam laced with viruses, said Mark Sunner, chief technical officer with MessageLabs, a New York-based company that manages e-mail security for businesses.
"Spam is really moving into a whole new league of subversiveness," Sunner said. "This is moving right in the realms of actual real computer crimes. Machines are being hijacked."
Over 60 percent of all spam intercepted by MessageLabs contained viruses, Sunner said.
Officials at Symantec and Network Associates said their antivirus software would be able to protect consumers from most viruses, and particularly this hacking operation.
Symantec's Norton AntiVirus costs about $50. Network Associates' McAfee Virus Scan Online costs about $35 for one year.
"Antivirus software is always a good way to go," said Craig Schmugar, a virus research engineer with Network Associates' Aver Antivirus Emergency Response team.
Experts also recommend not opening any e-mail attachment that is unexpected, updating your antivirus software regularly and purchasing a personal firewall, which can cost around $50.
"It's like locking the doors on your car," Kingwood resident Jim Toney said. "A persistent and focused thief can get into the car, but locking your doors keeps the joy riders out."
Toney, a user of Everyones Internet, has already installed antivirus software on his Macintosh and plans to purchase a personal firewall soon.
One indication of how hard it is to block all the new attacks is the problems faced by Internet service providers, which say they have been unwitting parties to them.
In the case of a Rackshack server hosting the pornographic Web site, the server communicated with the other home computers, which displayed images from the site on the Rackshack machine but hid the site's real location.
The space on the Rackshack server was rented by the hackers, who signed an agreement to not break the Houston company's rules, which include a zero tolerance policy toward spam. Even when the hackers broke those rules, Everyone's Internet officials were not aware of the problems the site was creating until virus experts alerted them.
"With the number of servers we have, it's hard for us to monitor everything," said Jeff Lowenberg, Everyones Internet vice president of operations. "If we were made aware of it, we would take action immediately."
With the Rackshack server at the center of the hacking operation, some experts are blaming local service providers, calling on the companies to take more responsibility for protecting their customers.
"The pressure should be put on ISPs to include scanning technologies to their own services they provide," said Sunner of MessageLabs.
Internet service providers should have more than just traditional antivirus software -- they should be using scanning technology that can predict potential viruses, Sunner added.
But local Internet providers said there's not much they can do to protect consumers.
"We're just like the highway system; we're delivering traffic from here to there," said Jonah Yokubaitis, CEO of Houston-based Internet service provider Texas.net. "The main problem is irresponsible use of the Internet by a lot of consumers, and they want to blame anyone but themselves."
Yokubaitis said scanning technology would not only be pricey, but also would clog up Internet traffic.
"It would be like a toll booth in the middle of I-10 in Houston but would cause a traffic jam from here to Florida," he said.
Açieeed! style by 