crouch and lean

DenKirson · Post by **DenKirson** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:00 pm

This is the biggest topic I've ever seen so ferverently disputed. Well, almost. Going to thin out all of the points to make it clear in most senses.

The widest misconception is that crouch-leaning is ultimately wrong. The only case in which it MAY be wrong (as considered by PHX) is when a number of players are "dueling" with shotguns in an open, unobtrusive area, and one of them uses the crouch-lean in order to hinder the aim of the other shotgunners.

The crouch-lean only affects a general classification of people: those who use shotguns a lot. But the only problem posed to the shotgunners is a sort of optical illusion. By instinct/habit/hand-eye-reflex, the crosshair would move to the targeted crouch-leaner as seen, although that's not where he is when in that position.

Multiple remedies to this predicament are as follows:

-Train oneself to shoot the crouch-leaner in the place he would be were he not leaning (straight up), which is where his hit-box is (a bonus to those master defeating crouch-leaners, as the crouch leaners are only messing with their own aim, while the shotgunner has a static target to blow away).

-Use something other than a shotgun to combat crouch-leaners (I myself have rarely used the M590 or USAS12, and have become proficent in use of the M3A1, M60, and Colt 1911. Often when I see an excessive Leaner, I like to grab an M4 and plug his face with M203 goodness, wait for him to call me an "M4 nade whore/noob", then can him with another!).

-Eliminate/punish/banish/warn/kick the crouch-leaner in our server (Most of the admins in the PHX server have conformed to this tactic as they have the power to do so, and it is the easiest way to deal with the problem. It may bring up negative feedback such as this very forum topic, but it is of little consequence).

-Fight Fire with Fire, and crouch-lean him back (If literally everyone crouch-leaned, then obviously no-one would care. That will never be the case, so this option is looked down upon)!

-Quit (but it's way too fun!).

-Go somewhere else (but considering PHX owns the server, WE kick YOU out).

-----

Warning/kicking/banning excessive crouch-leaners is PHX policy. To go against it means the offender's excusrion. No questions asked, we make sure the door does hit your ass on the way out.

Hmâ„¢, that was a good waste of time... back to Final Fantasy XI!

SILENT1 · Post by **SILENT1** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:21 pm

OK I respect your wishes, will I still be burned?...lol...I think the shot gun should be removed from game, to strong...not very real...but some players expliot this fact all the time...peace out

Undead_Mercenary · Post by **Undead_Mercenary** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:25 pm

Very well said Den. I believe you may be the PHX hermit who comes along every so often to give very important advice.

Optimus.Prime · Post by **Optimus.Prime** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:42 pm

HAH i might still bbq ur ass but it wont be for crouch leaning... ill probobly do it just becuase i am a jackass... to be honest i really dont care about crouch leaning, the truth is yes it is an exploit and what the hell are we supposed to do about it, rewrite the physics engine? heh most games these days include scripting and exploits such as this and in sume cases scripting is encouraged (eg tribes 2) so its really no big deal... now i dont really like the whole scripting/crouch leaning thing but its in there and i guess the rule is run what u brung! most admins on our server dont like it and like me they enjoy ridiculing people that use it (i mean thats half the fun of being an admin) i dont carry grudges or whatever so its not like im all pissed off, im just a natural asshole like undead (jk man) from the immortal words of my addicted friend addict... "If i can't beat u, I'll ctrl+alt+delete u."

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:45 pm

the shot gun not very realistic? well well let's see here.. getting killed and coming back to life 8 seconds later, getting shot a few times and finding a backpack that not only makes you feel better it gives you more ammo, running around shooting animated people, carrying 5 knives a pistol a shotgun and an automatic rifle as well as a couple of grenades and whipping them out of no where all of a sudden, automatic reload it is all unrealistic... it is a freaking game. You can't bitch about a weapon being unrealistic because it is all unreal.. sheesh

SILENT1 · Post by **SILENT1** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:54 pm

my only complaint about shottie is the distance not the power..i know it is a game that is why I dont get mad... i use mp5..lol

ZarnKano · Post by **ZarnKano** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:34 pm

Den is the PHX Guru of knowledge. Wish you were in some games with us.

But actually if youre intrested in heading up a FFIX divison, we lost 2 SWG people to it and might loose some mroe to it if ya wanna form your own thingie.

Edit - Did I say FFIX... oh god kill me...

Dr.Death · Post by **Dr.Death** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:08 am

Well I edited my first post and I see alot has happened since my first post. Well I must apologize for the name calling, I was out of line. But to say we don't know what were doing or were born under a rock? That wasn't cool either. But I guess its a closed subject. Its over.

SILENT1 · Post by **SILENT1** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:09 am

Dr. Death I agree, and as Time to Die said, I could have used different wording, but I was not trying to call anyone names...someone from your server invited players at the server I was on to check out your server,several players then went over to your server, and I too was getting ready to check it out (waiting till end of map) when said players came back and said they were kicked for crouch and leaning...now my biggest complaint about SoF is the cheators and I thought y'all were saying that this is a cheat,,,in a game, like a battle you look for your foes weakness and you exploit them and if one of them is their enablities to shoot a crouch and leaner you SHOULD take advantage of this, thats all

Dr.Death · Post by **Dr.Death** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:10 am

It's all good!

Post by **Archangelus** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:28 am

Silent1,

If it was simply that people were bad at adjusting to shoot people when they are crouch-leaning, then I would say you are right. Unfortunately, this is not the case. It is a known bug with the hit-boxes that IDO was pointing out earlier. The issue is that with earlier versions of OSP than are out now and the official versions from Raven, when someone would lean, the hitbox for their body would stay as if they were just crouched and not leaning. So if you went to shoot someone's head or upper body when they were crouch-leaning, you would hit nothing. Insted, you had to imagine they were just crouching and shoot where their head would be. This is a bug in the game. Using a bug in a game to your advantage, regardless of if everyone is doing it IS an exploit. It's the essence of the definition of the word. Doing something that was NOT intended for your benefit. Now, most versions of OSP, including the one that runs on our server should have the hitbox correction, so crouch-lean doesn't matter. Furthermore, no one should be kicked without warning and a chance to stop said behavior. In this case though, I don't think your clanmates would have stopped regardless of if the fixes were in or not. If you have any complaints about a particular administrator, feel free to send them to myself or IDO and we will look into them, but at this point I consider this topic closed.

-Archangelus
Order of the Phoenix - Guild Leader

SILENT1 · Post by **SILENT1** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:26 pm

OK message understood...it was my impression that crouch and leaning was treated like a cheat...I for one HATE cheats...I think there should be a master ban list and if you are EVER caught cheating on any server, well cheats might as well toss their game in trash can because they would not be able to play on any PB servers...no complaints about anyone...thank you to all who took time to reply to my post and happy fragging to all

Post by **Archangelus** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:29 pm

Good luck to you too!

-Arch

A7ESF · Post by **A7ESF** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:57 am

/me thinks he should stay out of this one. We gots into too much trouble last time I stuck my nose in to this subject. :p

Ello all of PHX!! Thought I'd drop by and say Hi, been a while since I've had the chance to run into any of ya. I'm currently out of town (and going through SOF2 withdrawl) so it'll be a bit longer before I can jump back in the server and get thrashed. Look forward to seeing all ya'll soon.

A7

Post by **I.D.O.** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:53 pm

Good to hear from you A7..... Long Time No Kill!! HEHE!!!