Imp - can you also provide reference to the following two items:
1) The US lost the War of 1812.
2) The White House wasn't white until after it was burned by the Canadians in retaliation for our burning of York (Toronto).
Just curious - don't want to be limited to the potentially-biased American sources, so if you have others, I'd be happy to see them.
-Arch
Check it, Check it, Check it out
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Archangelus
- Posts: 4286
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:01 pm
- Contact:
The prospective impact of NAFTA was a popular argument during the '96 election, especially by Perot. While I understand the perception that NAFTA was a Win-Win situation for Canada and Mexico and a huge losing proposition for the US (because I felt the same at the time), the truth of the matter is that NAFTA actually hasn't harmed America, and has benefitted us.
Jobs migrating to locations where wages were lower started way before NAFTA even came into the picture. In fact, all NAFTA did was remove the measely 4% tarriff on products imported from Mexico which was doing nothing to stem the loss of jobs to Mexico, nor did it speed up the migration. In fact, many economists argue that the removal of the tarriff allowed for some of the work that companies wanted to be done in the US was moved back because there was no penalty for bringing the components back in. Regardless, it's a moot point - jobs aren't going to Mexico now, which is what people were afraid of. Jobs are going oversees regardless of type. They are going to China, India, Africa, and South America. Places that NAFTA doesn't even encompass.
There's also the flip side...did you know that exports of American products and harvests have gone up substantially since NAFTA was introduced. The price tag on US goods has fallen (mainly because of the removal of the reverse tarriff on US goods in Mexico) and consumption is up, which means an increase in gross and net revenue for US companies. Exports of corn alone have doubled since NAFTA was implemented.
Job loss as of recent can be attributed to a few things:
1) Election 2000 & 9/11 - both of these issues lent to a sense of instability and lack of confidence in our government and society. Both of those tend to keep consumers guarded about spending money. Seeing as 2/3 of the US economy is driven by our own citizens purchasing goods inside the US, the fall of Consumer Confidence usually results in job loss if it is sustained.
2) Improved technology and inadequate education - Many jobs are being automated or removed altogether because technology is improving at a rapid pace. Traditionally, this isn't a problem because, as it's true anywhere, there is more work to be done. Our issue (and it isn't just a US issue) is that the people who are having jobs replaced do not have the skills for the jobs that need to be done, they don't have the money or time to get the training, and there is little help from private or public sectors to provide either. Additionally, there is a decreased emphasis on the importance of education in our society today. If youth isn't there to continue or maintain advancement, then the converse will happen.
3) Improved Global Economy - We aren't in a limited global economy anymore where US products are the best in a small selection. We still provided great products, but there is more to choose from. As any marketing or economics class would show - even if you have the best product, the more alternatives there are, the smaller your "market share" will become. With more countries advancing and entering the global economy, the money will become more spread out.
Of course - this is all just conjecture based upon my personal research and education. If you wish reference on any of these points - let me know and I will be happy to provide. I still avoid the political debate (as much as I can). It's all fun until it gets personal, and I unfortunately take these type of arguments too personally - which is why I stay away.
-Arch
Jobs migrating to locations where wages were lower started way before NAFTA even came into the picture. In fact, all NAFTA did was remove the measely 4% tarriff on products imported from Mexico which was doing nothing to stem the loss of jobs to Mexico, nor did it speed up the migration. In fact, many economists argue that the removal of the tarriff allowed for some of the work that companies wanted to be done in the US was moved back because there was no penalty for bringing the components back in. Regardless, it's a moot point - jobs aren't going to Mexico now, which is what people were afraid of. Jobs are going oversees regardless of type. They are going to China, India, Africa, and South America. Places that NAFTA doesn't even encompass.
There's also the flip side...did you know that exports of American products and harvests have gone up substantially since NAFTA was introduced. The price tag on US goods has fallen (mainly because of the removal of the reverse tarriff on US goods in Mexico) and consumption is up, which means an increase in gross and net revenue for US companies. Exports of corn alone have doubled since NAFTA was implemented.
Job loss as of recent can be attributed to a few things:
1) Election 2000 & 9/11 - both of these issues lent to a sense of instability and lack of confidence in our government and society. Both of those tend to keep consumers guarded about spending money. Seeing as 2/3 of the US economy is driven by our own citizens purchasing goods inside the US, the fall of Consumer Confidence usually results in job loss if it is sustained.
2) Improved technology and inadequate education - Many jobs are being automated or removed altogether because technology is improving at a rapid pace. Traditionally, this isn't a problem because, as it's true anywhere, there is more work to be done. Our issue (and it isn't just a US issue) is that the people who are having jobs replaced do not have the skills for the jobs that need to be done, they don't have the money or time to get the training, and there is little help from private or public sectors to provide either. Additionally, there is a decreased emphasis on the importance of education in our society today. If youth isn't there to continue or maintain advancement, then the converse will happen.
3) Improved Global Economy - We aren't in a limited global economy anymore where US products are the best in a small selection. We still provided great products, but there is more to choose from. As any marketing or economics class would show - even if you have the best product, the more alternatives there are, the smaller your "market share" will become. With more countries advancing and entering the global economy, the money will become more spread out.
Of course - this is all just conjecture based upon my personal research and education. If you wish reference on any of these points - let me know and I will be happy to provide. I still avoid the political debate (as much as I can). It's all fun until it gets personal, and I unfortunately take these type of arguments too personally - which is why I stay away.
-Arch
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Archangelus
- Posts: 4286
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:01 pm
- Contact:
You are blatently wrong. I work in a Fortune 20 company in the IT department. Outsourcing is done purely for cost. The issue is less about quality and more about the fact that firms in India are charging about 1/2 what we get paid an hour, plus you don't have to provide resources such as a cube, systems, support for those systems, infrastructure (think power, water, parking, etc), not to even mention benefits such as 401k, healthcare, pension, etc.Imperil wrote: It's funny because now it's not even about cost, it is costing companies more cash up front to contract and outsource to Canada now. The reason is because the quality of work simply outshines. In the US you have engineers and developers trying to climb the ladder, jumping over each other, taking shots at each other, always trying to advance over someone else... I mean read any business magazine and it will tell you that is one of the huge problems with the country right now. When you are working in engineering, development, R&D.. if you aren't working as a team you might as well just stay at home.
Don't believe everything you read. The main issue with Corporate America is that the people at the top are clamoring for the almighty dollar and aren't necessarily worrying about who's providing it. Yes, there are people that do everything to climb the ladder, but don't make brash generalizations. Just because you hear of a kid that takes a gun to school, do you automatically assume every kid is packing (kindergartners with Derringers in their Underoos)? No, same thing here.
Also, the statement about how "all Americans talk as if THEY have the power"....Well, we do. United we stand, divided we fall. There is a strong sense of nationalism in our country, even between the people that disagree strongly with the other side. We may be misguided at times, and we may have issues with control from our Corporate America presence today, but I'd rather be apart of our democracy with all of its faults, than anywhere else in the world.
Not asking you to agree or understand. Just stating a point....
Poor Imp. Still doesn't have the correct facts.
Economy - overview:
As an affluent, high-tech industrial society, Canada today closely resembles the US in its market-oriented economic system, pattern of production, and high living standards. Since World War II, the impressive growth of the manufacturing, mining, and service sectors has transformed the nation from a largely rural economy into one primarily industrial and urban. The 1989 US-Canada Free Trade Agreement (FTA) and the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) (which includes Mexico) touched off a dramatic increase in trade and economic integration with the US. As a result of the close cross-border relationship, the economic sluggishness in the United States in 2001-02 had a negative impact on the Canadian economy. Real growth averaged nearly 3% during 1993-2000, but declined in 2001, with moderate recovery in 2002-03. Unemployment is up, with contraction in the manufacturing and natural resource sectors. Nevertheless, given its great natural resources, skilled labor force, and modern capital plant Canada enjoys solid economic prospects. Two shadows loom, the first being the continuing constitutional impasse between English- and French-speaking areas, which has been raising the specter of a split in the federation. Another long-term concern is the flow south to the US of professionals lured by higher pay, lower taxes, and the immense high-tech infrastructure. A key strength in the economy is the substantial trade surplus. Roughly 90% of the population lives within 160 kilometers of the US border.
So, lets see if I have this straight. Canada is a good place to live, it has great natural resources, skilled labor force, and modern capital plant that should give it great economic prospects. But yet, all the professionals are lured here to the US for higher pay, lower taxes and a much better hi-tech infrastructure. Did you see the part where our economy dipped and yours suffered too? Yeah, you depend on us, not the other way around.
As far as you supplying us energy, that's true. I'll let you in on a dirty little secret though. We're going to drain you dry. Just like the rest of the world. And that is a hell of a smart plan. Why drain our resources when you will sell us yours? Oh you'll hold back? We have over 22 billion barrels in reserve. Last year we consumed 20 billion. So we have 2 billion left over to fart around with. And if you still won't sell us yours? That's ok, we get two fifths of our oil from OPEC, not you. After OPEC, it's you, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Venezuela in that order. We'll just get more from the other three.
As far as wood and food? Look at the statement above. We'll raze your forests and save ours. It seems your more than happy to do that for us. Sure, go ahead. Food? Of the total amount we produce, the American public only consumes about 10- 20%. We produce more than we need. What do we do with the rest of it? Lets see, two things come to mind - 1) humanitarian need and 2) sell it to the rest of the world. Seems to be working pretty good. Once again, you need us more than we need you.
source- http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/ca.html ; http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html#oil
As far the War of 1812. Well, it wasn't really against Canada because, well... Canada didn't exist then! Remember, Canada gained it's independance 1 July 1867. So, technically, the war of 1812 was fought against the British. For many the war of 1812 is seen as the second revolutionary war and with the conclusion, we were finally recognized as a legitimate world power.
But wait, isn't your Chief of State Queen Elizabeth II? So are you Canadians or British? You claim independance, but still pay homage to the crown? Then there is the French population that still calls France home. In the end, it doesn't matter: we kicked your asses back to that frozen wasteland you call home.
Now I will admit that we tired on a few occasions during that war to invade Canada and failed. But it wasn't Canadians defending that land, it was British forces. Hey, we were young and ambitious. Same as the British were when they tried to capture New Orleans after the war was over. End result? 700 British killed, 1400 wounded. American? 8 killed, 13 wounded.
sources- http://home.earthlink.net/~gfeldmeth/chart.1812.html ; http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html
Also, outsourcing is inevitable. It's happening here in the American military. We military folk don't like it, but it also makes sense. My job will be eliminated from stateside bases by 2010. That's a good thing. A civilian can do my job here just fine. Hell I might be offered early retirement just to do that. If I don't do that, what I will do is transition over to mobility. We don't fight on our soil. We take the fight to other people. So now instead of having hundreds of troops maintaining equipment stateside, we can have that war fighting capability on the front, doing its job. That's the job of the military, to deploy. If someone doesn't like that, then they need to get our of the military.
It's the same way in the private sector. In this global economic market that we have, it's becoming more and more evident that the shift is toward outsourcing. Yes, it's frustrating in the beginning, but we'll survive. And if you think John Kerry is so concerned about this, ask him why his wifes company has most of their operations outside the country. Most of the Heiz production plants are outside the country. Is there any plan to bring those back? Nope. Now, he's not the head of the company, and I know that, but still, it's a little hypocritical don't you think? Before this election, name one piece of legislation that he's introduced in the Senate to help stem the tide of outsourcing. Outsourcing didn't become an issue until this campaign and it's been happening for years now.
Economy - overview:
As an affluent, high-tech industrial society, Canada today closely resembles the US in its market-oriented economic system, pattern of production, and high living standards. Since World War II, the impressive growth of the manufacturing, mining, and service sectors has transformed the nation from a largely rural economy into one primarily industrial and urban. The 1989 US-Canada Free Trade Agreement (FTA) and the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) (which includes Mexico) touched off a dramatic increase in trade and economic integration with the US. As a result of the close cross-border relationship, the economic sluggishness in the United States in 2001-02 had a negative impact on the Canadian economy. Real growth averaged nearly 3% during 1993-2000, but declined in 2001, with moderate recovery in 2002-03. Unemployment is up, with contraction in the manufacturing and natural resource sectors. Nevertheless, given its great natural resources, skilled labor force, and modern capital plant Canada enjoys solid economic prospects. Two shadows loom, the first being the continuing constitutional impasse between English- and French-speaking areas, which has been raising the specter of a split in the federation. Another long-term concern is the flow south to the US of professionals lured by higher pay, lower taxes, and the immense high-tech infrastructure. A key strength in the economy is the substantial trade surplus. Roughly 90% of the population lives within 160 kilometers of the US border.
So, lets see if I have this straight. Canada is a good place to live, it has great natural resources, skilled labor force, and modern capital plant that should give it great economic prospects. But yet, all the professionals are lured here to the US for higher pay, lower taxes and a much better hi-tech infrastructure. Did you see the part where our economy dipped and yours suffered too? Yeah, you depend on us, not the other way around.
As far as you supplying us energy, that's true. I'll let you in on a dirty little secret though. We're going to drain you dry. Just like the rest of the world. And that is a hell of a smart plan. Why drain our resources when you will sell us yours? Oh you'll hold back? We have over 22 billion barrels in reserve. Last year we consumed 20 billion. So we have 2 billion left over to fart around with. And if you still won't sell us yours? That's ok, we get two fifths of our oil from OPEC, not you. After OPEC, it's you, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Venezuela in that order. We'll just get more from the other three.
As far as wood and food? Look at the statement above. We'll raze your forests and save ours. It seems your more than happy to do that for us. Sure, go ahead. Food? Of the total amount we produce, the American public only consumes about 10- 20%. We produce more than we need. What do we do with the rest of it? Lets see, two things come to mind - 1) humanitarian need and 2) sell it to the rest of the world. Seems to be working pretty good. Once again, you need us more than we need you.
source- http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/ca.html ; http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html#oil
As far the War of 1812. Well, it wasn't really against Canada because, well... Canada didn't exist then! Remember, Canada gained it's independance 1 July 1867. So, technically, the war of 1812 was fought against the British. For many the war of 1812 is seen as the second revolutionary war and with the conclusion, we were finally recognized as a legitimate world power.
But wait, isn't your Chief of State Queen Elizabeth II? So are you Canadians or British? You claim independance, but still pay homage to the crown? Then there is the French population that still calls France home. In the end, it doesn't matter: we kicked your asses back to that frozen wasteland you call home.
Now I will admit that we tired on a few occasions during that war to invade Canada and failed. But it wasn't Canadians defending that land, it was British forces. Hey, we were young and ambitious. Same as the British were when they tried to capture New Orleans after the war was over. End result? 700 British killed, 1400 wounded. American? 8 killed, 13 wounded.
sources- http://home.earthlink.net/~gfeldmeth/chart.1812.html ; http://gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html
Also, outsourcing is inevitable. It's happening here in the American military. We military folk don't like it, but it also makes sense. My job will be eliminated from stateside bases by 2010. That's a good thing. A civilian can do my job here just fine. Hell I might be offered early retirement just to do that. If I don't do that, what I will do is transition over to mobility. We don't fight on our soil. We take the fight to other people. So now instead of having hundreds of troops maintaining equipment stateside, we can have that war fighting capability on the front, doing its job. That's the job of the military, to deploy. If someone doesn't like that, then they need to get our of the military.
It's the same way in the private sector. In this global economic market that we have, it's becoming more and more evident that the shift is toward outsourcing. Yes, it's frustrating in the beginning, but we'll survive. And if you think John Kerry is so concerned about this, ask him why his wifes company has most of their operations outside the country. Most of the Heiz production plants are outside the country. Is there any plan to bring those back? Nope. Now, he's not the head of the company, and I know that, but still, it's a little hypocritical don't you think? Before this election, name one piece of legislation that he's introduced in the Senate to help stem the tide of outsourcing. Outsourcing didn't become an issue until this campaign and it's been happening for years now.
Last edited by Thowarr on Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
I would like to introduce myself.......
I am John Kerry.
I was against the first Iraq war. I am against the second Iraq war, but
I voted for it. Now I'm against it but I was for it. I support the UN.
I'm against terrorism and against the Iraq war. But I voted for the
Iraq war. So, I voted against the first war and supported the second
war, wait.....
I'm against gay marriage but for gay unions. I support gays but think
the San Francisco mayor is wrong. I support gay marriages. No, wait,
gay unions.
I'm Catholic. Wait, I'm Jewish. My dad was Jewish. But I was raised
Catholic. What am I? I don't want to confuse people.
I am for abortions, but wait, I'm Catholic, and Catholics are pro-life.
ButI might consider putting pro-life judges in office, but I'm not sure. I
do know I voted for a pro-life judge, but I stated that it was a
mistake.
I went to Vietnam. But I was against Vietnam. I testified against
fellow U.S. Troops in Vietnam, threw my medals away and led others to
do the same.
But I am a war hero. Against the war.
I stated I threw my medals away then I threw my ribbons away. I then
revealed that I threw my ribbons away but not my medals, then lately I
stated that I threw someone else's medals away and never threw anything of mine away.
I believe Ribbons and medals aren't the same thing. Medals come with
ribbons, so now I believe that ribbons and medals are the same thing
besides the fact that ribbons are cloth and medals are metal.
I wrote a book that pictured the U.S. Flag upside-down on its cover.
But now I fly and campaign in a plane with a large flag right-side up
on it. But sometimes, we fly upside-down for fun.
Yasser Arafat is a hero and a statesman. The Israelis shouldn't kill
Palestinian terrorists, but they should stop terrorism. Yasser Arafat
is a terrorist supporter. I support Mideast peace.
I am for the common man, unlike Bush. I am against the rich. But my
family is worth $300 million dollars has a jet and many SUV's. I am the
common man.
I am against sending jobs overseas. My wife is a Heinz heir, which
Heinz has most factories offshore. I am against rewarding companies for
exporting jobs as long as it is not Heinz.
I own $1 million in Wal-Mart stock. I believe Wal-Mart is evil by
driving small business owners out of town. I am a capitalist and I own
part of Wal-Mart but I am a good guy for small corporate America.
I own SUV's when I talk to my followers in Detroit, Michigan, Teresa
owns SUV's, I don't, when I talk to "tree-hugging" followers. I have a
campaign jet that gets 1/3 mpg, which is great fuel efficiency.
I am against making military service an issue in presidential
elections. I defended a draft dodger Clinton and stated that all serve
in their own capacity whether they draft dodge or not. Did I mention, I
served in Vietnam and am a hero? Are you questioning my patriotism? I
served in Vietnam. My opponent didn't. I have three purple hearts! I am
a hero. I am qualified to run this country since I served....those 4 months, which seemed like a lifetime!!!
I am John Kerry. (What you see is what you get).
.....and remember, my initials are JFK, but I'm not John Fitzgerald
Kennedy!!! .... (but right now I wish I was!!!)
I am John Kerry.
I was against the first Iraq war. I am against the second Iraq war, but
I voted for it. Now I'm against it but I was for it. I support the UN.
I'm against terrorism and against the Iraq war. But I voted for the
Iraq war. So, I voted against the first war and supported the second
war, wait.....
I'm against gay marriage but for gay unions. I support gays but think
the San Francisco mayor is wrong. I support gay marriages. No, wait,
gay unions.
I'm Catholic. Wait, I'm Jewish. My dad was Jewish. But I was raised
Catholic. What am I? I don't want to confuse people.
I am for abortions, but wait, I'm Catholic, and Catholics are pro-life.
ButI might consider putting pro-life judges in office, but I'm not sure. I
do know I voted for a pro-life judge, but I stated that it was a
mistake.
I went to Vietnam. But I was against Vietnam. I testified against
fellow U.S. Troops in Vietnam, threw my medals away and led others to
do the same.
But I am a war hero. Against the war.
I stated I threw my medals away then I threw my ribbons away. I then
revealed that I threw my ribbons away but not my medals, then lately I
stated that I threw someone else's medals away and never threw anything of mine away.
I believe Ribbons and medals aren't the same thing. Medals come with
ribbons, so now I believe that ribbons and medals are the same thing
besides the fact that ribbons are cloth and medals are metal.
I wrote a book that pictured the U.S. Flag upside-down on its cover.
But now I fly and campaign in a plane with a large flag right-side up
on it. But sometimes, we fly upside-down for fun.
Yasser Arafat is a hero and a statesman. The Israelis shouldn't kill
Palestinian terrorists, but they should stop terrorism. Yasser Arafat
is a terrorist supporter. I support Mideast peace.
I am for the common man, unlike Bush. I am against the rich. But my
family is worth $300 million dollars has a jet and many SUV's. I am the
common man.
I am against sending jobs overseas. My wife is a Heinz heir, which
Heinz has most factories offshore. I am against rewarding companies for
exporting jobs as long as it is not Heinz.
I own $1 million in Wal-Mart stock. I believe Wal-Mart is evil by
driving small business owners out of town. I am a capitalist and I own
part of Wal-Mart but I am a good guy for small corporate America.
I own SUV's when I talk to my followers in Detroit, Michigan, Teresa
owns SUV's, I don't, when I talk to "tree-hugging" followers. I have a
campaign jet that gets 1/3 mpg, which is great fuel efficiency.
I am against making military service an issue in presidential
elections. I defended a draft dodger Clinton and stated that all serve
in their own capacity whether they draft dodge or not. Did I mention, I
served in Vietnam and am a hero? Are you questioning my patriotism? I
served in Vietnam. My opponent didn't. I have three purple hearts! I am
a hero. I am qualified to run this country since I served....those 4 months, which seemed like a lifetime!!!
I am John Kerry. (What you see is what you get).
.....and remember, my initials are JFK, but I'm not John Fitzgerald
Kennedy!!! .... (but right now I wish I was!!!)
-
Archangelus
- Posts: 4286
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:01 pm
- Contact:
The reason outsourcing is an issue in this election is simple. The jobs being taken away are exactly the jobs that we were either too ignorant or arrogant to think could be done cheaper elsewhere (read: high skill/education jobs). Once those jobs (which also are usually high wage jobs) started to leave, the white collar sector which balked at the concern when blue collar jobs were being "outsourced" as good for the economy as a whole and just a sign of capitalism, are now sitting up and screaming - "Hey, Protect American Jobs!".
I know cause I was one of the hypocrites when it was happening to my parents and I was young, foolish, and arrogant.
I know cause I was one of the hypocrites when it was happening to my parents and I was young, foolish, and arrogant.
I want to take this time to thank the Canadians for being so damned argumentative, because that means my husband who loves a debate has someone besides me to argue with and I can take a well deserved vacation.
I do have this question though, while everyone is entitled to their opinions and debate team is cool for some people, why does it always have to be accomplished in generalities. Americans are dumb. Americans live in a bubble. Americans are selfish. You are saying Ayla is dumb, lives in a bubble and is selfish and you know, I don't really appreciate it.
No, I don't know a lot about Canada besides it being cold and I have cold urticaria so I could never live there. But does that make me dumb? I don't think so. I know a lot of things that I'm sure you all do not. I mean, I don't know anything about landscaping or nursery working but does that mean I can't appreciate a well-kept yard or a burgeoning houseplant? No, it simply means I kill all my houseplants. I don't know a lot about Canada so that makes me selfish? No, there's a lot I don't know about America too.
Bubble? Not really. Sure, about some things, those that don't really interest me. But that doesn't mean I'm in a bubble.
I know things but do I run around taking every opportunity to say hey Canadians there's this awesome thing called a paragraph (poo) that helps people prepare for a transition between thoughts, that way I don't have to get out my moron decoder ring so that I can decipher this long ass run on sentence stream of conscious bullshit so that I can form an opinion about it. No, because that's freaking mean.
And while I'm on the topic, why is it that the Canadians always wanna play Jeapordy when I'm trying to play COD. "Let's test Ayla's knowledge and make fun of her for the stuff she doesn't know." None of you look like Trebek, so stop with the goddamn popquiz.
Admittedly, I don't know much about Canadians or Canada but I'm starting to form the opinion that they are pompous know-it-all smug little self righteous.........
But see, I like you guys...I just wish you'd stop with the generalizations and the constant my dick's bigger than your dick (to semi quote Den). I mean a debate is fine, but do you have to insult me personally in order to accomplish it? If you do, then there are some flaws in your debate as far as I can tell.
That said, carry on.
I do have this question though, while everyone is entitled to their opinions and debate team is cool for some people, why does it always have to be accomplished in generalities. Americans are dumb. Americans live in a bubble. Americans are selfish. You are saying Ayla is dumb, lives in a bubble and is selfish and you know, I don't really appreciate it.
No, I don't know a lot about Canada besides it being cold and I have cold urticaria so I could never live there. But does that make me dumb? I don't think so. I know a lot of things that I'm sure you all do not. I mean, I don't know anything about landscaping or nursery working but does that mean I can't appreciate a well-kept yard or a burgeoning houseplant? No, it simply means I kill all my houseplants. I don't know a lot about Canada so that makes me selfish? No, there's a lot I don't know about America too.
Bubble? Not really. Sure, about some things, those that don't really interest me. But that doesn't mean I'm in a bubble.
I know things but do I run around taking every opportunity to say hey Canadians there's this awesome thing called a paragraph (poo) that helps people prepare for a transition between thoughts, that way I don't have to get out my moron decoder ring so that I can decipher this long ass run on sentence stream of conscious bullshit so that I can form an opinion about it. No, because that's freaking mean.
And while I'm on the topic, why is it that the Canadians always wanna play Jeapordy when I'm trying to play COD. "Let's test Ayla's knowledge and make fun of her for the stuff she doesn't know." None of you look like Trebek, so stop with the goddamn popquiz.
Admittedly, I don't know much about Canadians or Canada but I'm starting to form the opinion that they are pompous know-it-all smug little self righteous.........
But see, I like you guys...I just wish you'd stop with the generalizations and the constant my dick's bigger than your dick (to semi quote Den). I mean a debate is fine, but do you have to insult me personally in order to accomplish it? If you do, then there are some flaws in your debate as far as I can tell.
That said, carry on.
Last edited by Ayyyla on Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
I thought I had while we were playing COD and I watched you play. 
-
Archangelus
- Posts: 4286
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:01 pm
- Contact:
I love Ayyyla - purely platonically Thowarr - I SWEAR!!
Yeah, debates are great - and I have no issue seeing them occur or putting in my two cents, but like Ayyyla said, generalization can be really bad. They may apply to the majority, but that just means 50.1%+. The other 49.9% of us may think a little differently.
The key to a good debate (not the swill they try to pass off a the Presidential debates) is to keep the arguments to the topic and not personal. That's why debates in High School and College (debate clubs, not the bickering you did in class) were great, because you usually didn't know the other guy and the judges would smack you down if you went off topic too much.
Good stuff.....
Yeah, debates are great - and I have no issue seeing them occur or putting in my two cents, but like Ayyyla said, generalization can be really bad. They may apply to the majority, but that just means 50.1%+. The other 49.9% of us may think a little differently.
The key to a good debate (not the swill they try to pass off a the Presidential debates) is to keep the arguments to the topic and not personal. That's why debates in High School and College (debate clubs, not the bickering you did in class) were great, because you usually didn't know the other guy and the judges would smack you down if you went off topic too much.
Good stuff.....
Açieeed! style by